The following interview took place in New York City on March 15, 2005 with baroque trumpeter Robert Civiletti and Historic Brass Society President, Jeffrey Nussbaum. Robert (Bahb) Civiletti has recently embarked on performing the most virtuosic high register trumpet repertoire of the Baroque Period. BAHB is an artist for Stage 1 Trumpets and the New York Trumpet Company. He performs as a soloist in Europe and throughout the USA as well as with his ensemble Buccina Cantorum. He is the co-author, with Jerome Callet; of the trumpet method “Trumpet Secrets" (TCE) which outlines the tongue controlled embouchure system developed by Callet. BAHB will be releasing his New Book “ TCE TRAINING MANUAL” in mid April 2005. BAHB Civiletti arrived at this point via a rather interesting and circuitous route both musically and personally.

Jeffrey Nussbaum: BAHB, you have been engaged in some rather impressive activities lately including performing some of the most difficult music in the baroque trumpet repertoire and doing master classes on the tongue controlled embouchure (TCE). Having heard you at many Historic Brass Society conferences, I can safely say I’ve not heard anyone approach some of that literature. Tell me about yourself.

Robert (BAHB) Civiletti: I grew up on the rough lower east side of Manhattan. My family was very poor and my parents didn’t attain a high level of formal education. I had difficulties with certain members of my extended family and, to say the least, I did not receive much support as a child. This established a pattern of “negative reinforcement” that has lasted all of my life. Basically put, if you tell me that I can’t do it, I’ll work doubly hard until I prove you wrong and achieve it! When I was 10 years old my father, who was a musician and played the drums, gave me a trumpet. I really had the feeling then, that this was the key. The trumpet would help get me out of my situation.

JN: Where did you go to school?

RC: First, I went to Catholic school but that didn’t work out too well. I needed glasses and couldn’t see and they took that to mean I was stupid. I wouldn’t sit in my chair and the nuns were not kind to me. I probably wasn’t to kind to them either. When I transferred to public school at P.S. 11, where I went until the sixth grade, they realized I needed glasses and things improved. When I went to junior high school I met Dr.Myer (Mike) Savits, a music teacher who proved to be the greatest influence in my life. He was a great trumpeter and brilliant man who had degrees from Manhattan School of Music and a doctorate from New York University. Mike was the new band teacher and he told me, “I was listening to you. You really sound great for someone playing a piece of junk trumpet like that.” I was very offended by that even though it was a cheap banged up old trumpet from a pawnshop. I really wanted to hit him but my father taught me to respect teachers and I held my temper. He then opened his case and pulled out this beautiful bright gold trumpet, I had never seen such a beautiful instrument in my life. He wiggled the valves and asked what would I like to hear. Ever since I was little I remember my mother listening to the Metropolitan Opera program on the radio so I knew a little of that repertoire and I figured I’d really stump him by asking for the trumpet part from Aida. He played the whole thing perfectly and asked what else would I like to hear. I started throwing tunes at him left and right and he knew everyone of them. All of a sudden I had the greatest respect for him. He told me to quit the music school where I was taking trumpet lessons and he would give me trumpet lessons every day during lunch, for free! Now, I was a real street-wise kid and was totally confused because I wasn’t very trustful of people and my father used to tell me “something for nothing was not worth having.” So, I asked him why he was giving me these free lessons and asked what was in it for him. So he replied that he wanted me to come to the band room at 3 PM and start teaching trumpet. “Teaching!!? What are you talking about? I’m a fifteen year old kid!” At three o’clock some kids came in and I started to work with them but one of them had a problem I didn’t anticipate. Every time he put the mouthpiece to his lips the mouthpiece fell completely into his mouth because he had no teeth! When I went to Mr. Savits about this he just told me to figure it out, which I did by having the kid support the mouthpiece with his tongue. That was an early hint about the TCE.I continued my studies with Savits and soon started going on club dates with him and was on my way to becoming a professional.

JN: How did your musical development continue after those early days?

RC: First I studied at the New York College of Music for 2 years. Then I left New York when I received a full scholarship to attend the Yankton Conservatory (Yankton S. Dakota) and secured a position with the Sioux City Symphony. I studied at the Conservatory with Fredrick Kaufman. Upon returning to New York I won a position with the National Orchestra Association of New York. I then went on to teach High School Music and continued my studies at Montclair State University where I majored in music therapy and worked as a music therapist at Overbrook State Hospital. During this period I also started my own music school, "Star Music". I want to emphasize how important Mike Savits was to me. Years later I looked him up and we reunited when I took a trip to Florida where he is now living. It was an extremely emotional event and I’ve written the whole experience in an online interview with Ole Utnes, it can be found on my website http://www.tce-studio.com I see him every year and I’m so glad that I still have the opportunity to tell him how much he’s done for me.

After my classical music training and education I went on as a free-lance trumpeter playing with such groups as Tito Puente, The O.J.'s, The Glenn Miller Orchestra and many other groups in the New York area. I started my studies with Jerome Callet in 1973 and his techniques then helped to develop a high lead trumpet range. While music helped me attain a level in life that I never anticipated when I was young, it became apparent that the ever-shrinking music field was not going to support my then growing family. Being a responsible family man is extremely important to me. I took a 12-year hiatus from the music industry to pursue other interest. First we had a very successful catering business and I started doing antique restoration as a hobby. People began asking me to do this and that and soon I was making more money doing a little piece of furniture than playing all weekend long in New York.

JN: What brought you back to playing music?

RC: It’s a funny story. My family conspired “against” me. When my oldest daughter got married she wanted me to play trumpet during the wedding. I hadn’t played trumpet in more then 12 years and really had no interest in doing so. My life had changed and I was playing golf all the time and enjoying myself. The trumpet was the furthest thing from my mind. She hired the trumpeter Dave Sampson and during the wedding he was playing all this fantastic piccolo trumpet music and memories just flooded back to me. This is music that I loved and always dreamed of doing as a soloist. But after the wedding, I went back to my golf.

Several weeks later I got out of bed and tripped over something. It was my trumpet case! My wife said that she was cleaning out the closet and she would take care of it. A few days later, as I got out of bed I tripped over the case again. After two more days of stumbling into the case, I finally realized that she was sending me a message.

So, I opened the Bach case and there were 2 horns in the case. I wondered if I could still play. I played an arpeggio up to double high C. I went downstairs and asked,” What are you doing?” My wife said, ” Why don’t you play the trumpet again? You don’t have to perform for a living, just play the music you want to play”.

The next week I called Jerome Callet. I studied with him for about 13 years and incorporated his method into the way I played.

JN: But at that time it wasn’t the TCE was it?

RC: At that time Jerry was working with putting the tongue forward and between the teeth. The concept of the TCE was not developed until we collaborated to write the book “ Trumpet Secrets”. Many friends and colleagues said that I would never be able to come back after 12 years of not being involved with music. Of course this negative reinforcement works for me and I said, ” Watch me”. Jerry taught me everything about the tongue forward method. I practiced religiously so by 1997 I was already playing much better than when I quit.

JN: How did you discover your “chosen” instrument, the Baroque trumpet?

RC: In 1997 Jerry took me to Sweden with him to an ITG (International Trumpet Guild) show to demonstrate his trumpets. That was my first time meeting Ed Tarr, Niklas Eklund, Rainer Egger and a number of others. I was quite proficient as a piccolo trumpeter at that time. While I was there I went to Friedemann Immer’s master class. I told him I wanted to learn Baroque performance style. My ambition was to be a soloist.

After Friedemann heard my piccolo playing he invited me to study with him at a Master Class in Germany. During that class he introduced me to the Baroque Trumpet. I was a bit hesitant since I did not know much about the instrument. Friedemann said, "You try it, I think you will do well". He handed me his horn and I played a 2-octave arpeggio up and down in the harmonic series of the horn and Friedemann exclaimed, "You are a natural", to which I replied "A natural, natural trumpeter?" We both had a good laugh. At the end of the Master Class Friedemann gave me a baroque trumpet to take back to the States. He wanted to see if my interest would continue. My wife commented at that time that of all the people whom I played for, Friedemann was the one who helped me make a difference in my playing. I started studying with him in Germany and, as they say, the rest is history. I was hooked.

JN: What struck me about you was not only your obvious technical mastering but also your unbelievable enthusiasm. It was so clear that you were bitten by this bug that really has carried you on to this moment. Your enthusiasm embraces the whole gestalt. I find it really fascinating when an individual develops beyond his or her own expectations. I’ve seen it a few times where people have transformed themselves to a whole new level.

You have done that. I’m very lucky because, as the head of the Historic Brass Society, I have a great vantage point in viewing much of the activity in the brass field and I can tell you that this is rare. You’ve embraced a historically informed stylistic approach and also have an intellectual curiosity. You previously mentioned that you were never academically an A student but yet you have gotten to the point intellectually where you have the same kind of interest and curiosity and drive to understand the music in a complete and full way, that is intellectually, culturally, and musically, in the same way that a life-long “A student” naturally embraces the music. You have evened the scale and that is really remarkable. I remember when we first met and you were interested in the Historic Brass Society and told me of your great interest in the baroque trumpet. We discussed the idea that if you really want to play the natural trumpet you have to do more than just play it. You really have to learn and understand cultural social settings and understand the ins and outs of the theoretical approaches and articulations that are discussed in difficult ways to understand and you really embraced all of that. It’s made you a completely rounded artist. One cannot be an artist by only being a great player. There are not many people who have your technical ability but there are fewer people who have the combination of your technical ability and your attitude. That has made a great difference.

JN: Why don’t you tell us a bit about some of your recent activities and your view of the early music scene as you’ve recently experienced it?

RC: As I became more serious and skilled on the instrument I became interested in a segment of the natural trumpet repertoire that is seldom, if ever, performed because of the extreme demands of the high register. Composers such as Michael Haydn, Georg Reutter II Joseph Riepel and others are a few of the Baroque period composers whose music I am performing. The Reutter Concerto No.1ascends up to “G”’ above high “C”!!!. When I first started learning about this repertoire everyone said, “No one performs that.” Naturally, I set out to specialize in this music. At the risk of sounding immodest, if the greatest players in the world don’t attempt this repertoire, it makes me feel great that I’m doing it.

JN: If the shoe fits!

RC: I’m traveling throughout Europe doing master classes, often as a result of “Trumpet Secrets”, and playing these works. I’m also performing with my ensemble Buccina Cantorum in the States. I’ve made a couple of CDs that have been very nicely reviewed in the Historic Brass Society Newsletter. The most enthusiastic receptions I’ve been getting are in Europe, particularly in Germany where it seems that the public is much more responsive than in the States. It’s extremely difficult performing this repertoire in America.

JN: Tell me about “Trumpet Secrets”.

RC: It is a book in which Jerry Callet outlines the principles of his tongue forward method. I gave it the subtitle “The Tongue Controlled Embouchure” or TCE. I collaborated with him writing the section of the book as it related to baroque trumpet. When I returned to playing after that 12-year hiatus, I went to Jerry as I mentioned. I remember vividly sitting next to him during my studies in the 1970s and looking at his tongue as he set to play a double c and asking him what is it that you’re doing with your tongue. He couldn’t answer because at that time he was just unaware of it. He ultimately came to understand the important use of the tongue and that is how his method developed. That method helped me enormously to perform the highest and most difficult trumpet repertoire.

JN: How did you go from being a student to a collaborator?

RC: After many years of studying with him it became obvious that I would be the one to write this book with him. I was one of his most dedicated students. He asked me to help write the book and to include my knowledge of Baroque trumpet playing. During the 13 years of study he put me through many changes, I was sort of a “lab rat” for the method. I did not mind this as I was learning the best trumpet embouchure in the world. This intimate understanding of the TCE and the ability to communicate those ideas has enabled me to become an internationally recognized embouchure teacher and Baroque trumpet soloist.

I’ve had many full experiences in very different musical worlds as well as in non-musical activities. That I am now playing this instrument that I’ve fallen in love with, and playing its most demanding repertoire, is a joy.

Jeffrey Nussbaum is the founder and President of the Historic Brass Society; an international music organization dedicated to the promotion and study of the entire range of early brass instruments from Antiquity though the 20th century. He plays the cornetto, natural trumpet, English slide trumpet, Medieval slide trumpet and other Renaissance and early Baroque wind instruments. Information about the Historic Brass Society can be found at www.historicbrass.org